Madras 1981-1982
Question #6 from Question & Answer Meeting #2
Krishnamurti: "Kindly give a straight reply. Does God exist, or not? Yes, or no? If yes, how best to realize him in this life?" a lovely question, isn't it? man throughout history, from the ancient Greeks, from the ancient Sumerians have this idea of God. right? I'm not at all sure whether in the Upanishads they mention god at all. or is it related invention, yes? so, what is god? we are investigating, I am not attacking god. I'm not denying god. but we are investigating whether there is such a thing as god. who invented god? did god invent us? did god create us? hmm, right? God who is omnipotent omniscient eternal merciful justice all goodness, right? that's your concept of God and if we say he has created us then we are part of his image. we are part of him. that is we are omniscient, generous, loving, right? and eternal, right? are we? or we THINK we are? if god created you he must be an extraordinary entity. because he wants you to live a terrible life. you understand my question? if god made you why are you like this? you must be extraordinary human beings. pleasant you, beautiful, full of joy, excitement, full of delight, but you are not. so either you have created god or god has created you. but if you examine very closely you have created god. well? in India there [are] about, I was told there [are] about three hundred thousand gods and more. you can see, huh? every local person has his own god. so sirs, we have created god. see they are any of it, thought has created god and then thought worshiped the image which thought has created, which is to worship oneself and call it god. you understand all this? the better part of you is god, right? I wonder if you understand this. first of all let's be clear. have you created god? the local god from the corner, or the local gods in Rome or in Tirupati or wherever, you have created them, haven't you? huh? (the audiences don't say a thing) you're so very uncertain aren't you? so frightened. if you have, if you say we have created then you are scared stiff. because you have created out of your fear, that, out of your fear, you want security, right? you want safety, you want feel there is somebody looking after you, because you are afraid. so you create that and then worship that. just see what you're doing. going to city Tirupati and putting all you money in the bag, do you think gods want your money? sir, look at it all. you have nothing to offer but money, garland, prostrations, rituals, right? you have nothing else to offer. have realize the tragedy of this, sirs? if you love, not god, that's very easy to love god because it's an abstraction, it has not much meaning. but if you love, that very love is god, it's that very lovely sacred. you won't go outside to look for god. you understand all this sirs? (brief silence) And the questioner wants to know if I believe in God, I don't. because god is not something created by man. there is such thing as eternity which is to be outside of time. for that you must have a mind, a heart that is completely free from all the burdens of life, right? from your vanity, your arrogance, your selfishness, you follow sir? and we say we are not capable of it, tell us what to do. we are back in the cycle, somebody to tell you what to do. so you are in a jungle you have to walk through it by yourself, right? and for that you need vitality and vigor and strength, not in belief in God and goodness. belief has no place where truth is concerned. (someone from the audiences asks about Ātman: Sanskrit word that means inner self or soul) who is that? (the audience replies: the conscience inside each of us) Krishnamurti asks again: who is that? (and the audience repeats: the conscience inside each of us) Krishnamurti: is Ātman conscience? (someone says soul) Krishnamurti: soul? which soul? the soul of actual or so, I don't know what you're talking about. (babel, people saying things all together) Krishnamurti: a class you're all getting excited (laughter) because your belief is being attacked. (laughter) you are not meeting the challenge but you're resisting it. you think there is something inside you which is permanent, which is the light of god, which is nameless, et cetera et cetera. call it ātman, soul, light, whatever you like to call it. that there is inside you, in your conscience, in your brain, in your mind. something which is not word. which is not a thought, right? you believe that, huh? yes sir? (someone from the audience says "no, I don't believe it.") Krishnamurti: why? (he says: because there is no such a thing) Krishnamurti: how do you know? (laughter) just belief belief belief. what kind of brains have you sirs? don't you want to find out? don't you want to investigate into the truth of this matter whether there is soul, atman, whatever you like to call it? don't you just believe... what if you believe, what value has it? see I suppose I believe I've got ātman or whatever it is, super ātman I call it! (laughter) I believe in that and what value has it? in my daily life what part does it play? I'm miserable, I'm confused, I'm lonely, anxious, in agony. what's the point of my having a belief in ātman? if I'm free from all that, completely, then I shall find out. but you suppose I am, before it becomes so childish for god's sake. we're all grown up people, [with] jobs, children, wives. (people talking at once/ someone stands up and asks a question, but his words are inaudible in the video) Krishnamurti: oh what what what? what's? I don't understand sir. (it seems the questioner is talking about Ramakrishna...) Krishnamurti: alright sir, what about them? (the questioner explains his question) sir, would you forget all these people? including Ramana Maharshi, what the other gentleman was, would you forget them? what value have their life to you? you have your life to live, not their life. and when the people say they have attained what they have attained, how do you know? (the questioner replies) Krishnamurti: I have said it sir, don't believe it. (laughter) (it's like the questioner says that's not fair) Krishnamurti (laughing): it's not fair, I know, it's not quite fair. but sir, just listen. the truth is that, that it's something it cannot be experienced. it cannot be told to you. word is not that, but if you live on words it's that. you understand? the word is not that. like the word tree is not the tree. I can describe eternity bla bla bla. but the word is not that, but we are satisfied with the word, right sir? you love with your heart, with your mind, with everything you have, when you love somebody and you tell me of that love, and I accept the words but have no... the flower isn't there, the perfume isn't there. you see sirs, you have leaders. religious leaders and political leaders. I don't know why, why you have leaders at all. Ramakrishna, whatever you call, gurus that you have had, one after the other. this country is full of. and why do you follow? you understand? if once you realize you are responsible entirely for yourself, that you are in a jungle, literally in a jungle where you have to make your own way out. there is nobody to lead you then you forget all this, the examples, the books, everything. because you got vitality, strength to go through. but the moment you depend on leaders you become weak. if once you realize it, in you heart, not just intellectually, then you are a man, human being, free to walk straight. but we don't want all that. so it's so simple when you think of it all._
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