۱۳۹۹ خرداد ۱۹, دوشنبه

عقاب آسیا


خبرنگار: لقب عقاب آسیا را برای اولین بار چه کسی برای شما گذاشت؟
عابدزاده: تماشاگران و مردم که به من محبت داشتند این عنوان را روی من گذاشتند. هیچ گاه هواداران استقلال و پرسپولیس به من توهین نکردند. چون می‌دانستند من دروازه‌بان تیم ملی هم هستم. من با کتف شکسته برای تیم ملی بازی کردم. هر دو کتف من شکسته است. اما به خاطر مملکت و مردم بازی کردم.
من با همه وجود تمرین می‌کردم و لقب‌هایی که مردم به من می‌دادند به خاطر لطف آنها بود و ربطی به هیچ تیمی نداشت. من همیشه دعا می‌کنم همه بازیکنان به این درجه برسند که مورد محبت مردم قرار بگیرند. خاطره‌ای به ذهنم رسید. سال 65 من دروازه‌بان تیم ملی بودم و لباس سبز رنگی را به تن داشتم. پدر و مادرم به من گفتند شیشه‌های خانه را تمیز کن و من هم که بازیکن ملی‌پوش بودم مشغول تمیز کردن شیشه‌های خانه شدم. مردمی که می‌دیدند می‌خندیدند و می‌گفتند بازیکن تیم ملی را ببینید که شیشه تمیز می‌کند. مگر ما جرات می‌کردیم روی حرف پدر و مادرمان حرف بزنیم. الان اینطور نیست. بازیکن باید پیراهن تیم ملی را شب تا صبح به تن کند و آن را ببوسد. چون پرچم کشور بر تن تو است. در یک بازی، بازیکن حریف تکلی زد و پای او به زیر چشم من خورد و باعث شد 8 بخیه به صورت بزنم اما بازی کردم. آنهم در حالی که همان بازیکن حریف فریاد می‌زد صورت عابدزاده خونی شده اما به او گفتم بلند شد و مسخره بازی درنیاور! در یک بازی که در پرسپولیس بودم توپ سمت راست من آمد و شیرجه زدم. صورت من به دلیل برخورد با بازیکن حریف باز هم پاره شد و هنوز جای آن روی صورتم مشخص است. دکتر تیم که بالای سرم آمد به دلیل جراحت صورت من حالش بد شد اما من با آن وضعیت باز هم بازی کردم. الان شرایط به‌گونه‌ای است که بازیکن تا یک تکلی می‌زند 60 بار دور خودش غلت می‌خورد و حتی بعد از مصدومیت گریه می‌کند. بازیکنی که مصدوم شده می‌گوید نمی‌توانم بازی کنم، آن‌هم در حالی که یک‌ونیم میلیارد تومان پول گرفته است.

۱۳۹۹ فروردین ۱۰, یکشنبه

شاید باید

شاید حتا لازم به گفتن نباشد، اما انگار به راستی لازم است یادآوری کنیم؛ در موسیقی هم مانند همه‌ی هنرها «بهتر و بدتر» نداریم، ما فقط انتخاب می‌کنیم. کسی که با اطمینان اثری هنری را به اثر هنری دیگر برتر می‌داند همیشه از معیارهای مشخصی نگاه می‌کند. هرگاه ما با متر و معیار مشخصی، با نگاه از منظر خاصی به یک اثر هنری نگاه کنیم، نمی‌توانیم آن اثر را درک کنیم. آنچه ما از آن دریافت می‌کنیم، فقط آن چیزی است که به دنبالش رفته‌ایم و هرگاه به قصد داوری با اثری روبرو شویم، نخواهیم توانست خود را آزادانه درمواجهه با آن بیابیم. تنها ذهنی که آزاد باشد می‌تواند هوشیار باشد. ذهن درگیر درک نمی‌کند، از جواب‌های‌ از پیش آماده استفاده می‌کند. این البته موضوعی محدود به هنر نیست. به جای نزدیک شدن و درست دیدن تصویر، از دور شبیه ترین چیزی که پیش از این تجربه کرده‌است را بجای آن می‌گیرد. افراد در مواجهه با خواننده یا موسیقی جدیدی که به آنها نشان داده می‌شود، دنبال شبیه‌ترین مواردی که پیشتر دیده و شنیده اند می‌گردند. ذهنی که متکی به تجربه‌های پیشین‌اش است همواره  در یک خط حرکت خواهد کرد. اما هنر اصلن محلی است برای آزادانه حرکت کردن. چون برخلاف اکثر امور می‌توان در آن هرگونه آزمون و خطایی کرد بی‌اینکه هزینه‌ای برای خود و دیگران داشته باشد. همه‌ی عواملی که در ساخته شدن یک اثر توسط کسی دخالت دارند، تو در تو های بی‌نهایتی هستند. در هنر نمی‌دانیم چرا یکی می‌شود چیزی که ما دوست نداریم حق انتخاب با ماست اما نمی‌توانیم وجود آن را انکار کنیم. هر اثر او اطلاعات شگفت‌آوری از تجربه‌ی «او» بودن در این دنیا دارد. اگر ما به قصد مطالعه‌ آمده باشیم، عجیب است که ظرفیت رو به رو شدن با موضوعات را نداشته باشیم. چیزی که حداقل در نقدهای هنری فارسی همیشه دیده می‌شود، همین مقاومت در برابر آثار است. برای خودداری از پذیرا شدن اثر، تحلیل و درک چرایی وجود آن، چه آن را تایید می‌کنند و چه می‌خواهند مبرا بودن خود از آن را نشان دیگران دهند، ابتدا شبیه‌های آن را پیدا می‌کنند و با جای دادن آن اثر در یک یا چند دسته‌بندی‌ تکلیفش را مشخص می‌کنند. کار نقدها انگار انتخاب چند «صفت»  برای وصف و اعلام تایید یا رد کردن اثر است و بس. عجیب است نقدی نمی‌بینید که منتقد هنری در آن با یقیین حکم نکند، کمی به دریافت خود شک کند. آشپز در غذایش خود را بیان می‌کند. کسی که اثری بوجود می‌آورد، به همان میزانی که برای نفس خود آن کار انجامش می‌دهد، اراده‌ای دارد به ساختن؛ حالا چه نوآورانه باشد و چه اینکه در تکرار یک سنت، عملی مراقبه‌گونه انجام دهد. آن‌چه به عنوان «اثر» بوجود می‌آید یگانه است. هرچند به نظر تقلیدی دست چندم یا کاملن تقلبی بیاید، بی‌مهارت انجام شده‌ باشد یا مردم مسخره‌اش کنند. مادامی که به دنیا آمده است، بخشی از طبیعت هنر شده‌ است و جدا از حق حیاتش که بدیهی است، سهمی هم به میزان خودش خواهد داشت. ممکن است ما از یک خواننده‌ یا خوانندگان بسیاری متنفر باشیم، این حق ماست، احتمالن بهتر است همان چیزهایی را گوش کنیم که دوست داریم، اما اگر جست‌وجوگر هستیم همه را باید شناخت. ـ

۱۳۹۷ آذر ۳۰, جمعه

Frank Zappa Interview with Unknown (mtv show) 12-8-1984


Q:Frank how did the Mothers of Invention come about? Z:you mean the name? because the record company refused to have a group on the label call the mothers, they had talked to some people with marketing expertise and had ascertained that the American public would refuse to deal with a group called the mothers so I had to had of invention on the end of it otherwise they wouldn't give us a record contract. Q: how did the band come together? z: um, by accident. q: okay, we go on to a different topic then. Z: that's good. q: okay there's any of these questions you don't want to answer, you just let me know. Z: believe me I will. Q: okay, who were some of your major musical influences? Z: there's a list of 160 names on the inside of the freak out album since the time the freak out album was released 20 years ago I think I might have added four more names to the list the names are influences both both positive and negative. I'm easily influenced by things I hate. Q: are you is easily influenced by things you like? Z: yeah but there's more stuff that I hate than stuff that I like. Q:what songs of yours do you feel show you at your best? Z: that's a matter of taste my favorites are probably the ones that make everybody else vomit, but I like things like dangerous kitchen and jazz discharge party hats. Q:can you describe... Z: or the radio is broken. Q: can you describe the rock scene in LA in the 60s 70s and then what you think of it today in the eighties? Z: in the sixties the rock scene in Los Angeles was kind of interesting the sociology of it was kind of strange everybody was more interested in dressing up then playing music so you had rampant costumery all over the place and the only time the only type of music that was successful in Los Angeles during the 60s was folk rock, everything that was birds derived or derived from a group called love which was also a big group in LA at the time, there was a little literally no market for anything with a blues based influence, it was all this flower power stupidity, and then into the 70s it got big, the scene Los Angeles dissipated, so there wasn't really any focus, it was just a major record manufacturing Center and anything that you could stick on a record that would sell is what people came to Los Angeles to do, and the 80s is an extension of that somebody figured out that because you could dress in a different costume and do punk music they could have a punk scene in Los Angeles, so that developed and you had people coming from all over the country who could probably play an instrument before they got there but as soon as they got to Los Angeles they forgot all of their chops made themselves as ugly as possible figuring that was the best way to get a record contract and that's what it is. Q: do you think that music music today not not just in LA rock-and-roll music in general is is more formula than it was say in the 60s? Z:absolutely. Q: do you think there's any feeling left in... Q: you're here on MTV should know about formula music, come on give me a break, I mean let's face it, we are talking mass formulation. Q: going from there let's go into another question what do you think about music video in general? Z: well first of all it's a bad deal for the artist because record companies expect the artists to pay for the video itself, a video with class cost about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars an entire album cost 150 thousand dollars that's 30 minutes of music roughly for one hundred fifty thousand dollars that you can listen to or four minutes of stuff that you can watch for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. the artist is expected to pay for that out of his potential royalties or out of cash out of his own pocket. this video after it is manufactured is then sent to places like MTV, MTV puts it on the air charges advertisers' time, they make a profit from selling commercial time, this money does not go to the artist, the artist is supposed to take the risk and take the flyer on this thing to promote his record with a video and the video outlets receive all of their programming material free of charge, this is not a good for the artists and it's something that should be corrected. aside from that, videos saturate very quickly, you can look at a video six times and even it's a fabulous video you've seen everything that's in there and you don't need to see it again, you're waiting for the next video that has the girl getting out of the car, midgets, chains, stuff in the ear, stuff in the face, you know, weird hair, clothes, light coming in a weird angle, zippers, you've seen it and you're ready for the next one, a record that relates to something that you feel inside, you can listen to hundreds of times, and it means something to your life. videos are disposable, they're as disposable as television commercials. in fact that's what they are, they're four minute television commercials for albums, and when you consider that a record company makes the bulk of the profit on a record, the artist does not. and you have a modern situation where the artist is being asked to not only bankroll the video and the income of the station that plays the video, it's also bankrolling the record company. this stinks. Q: have you ever there seen a music video that you liked or could appreciate? Z: yes, my favorite music video is genius of love by Tom Tom Club, because it's animated, and it's clever. Q: the show that we're doing right now for MTV, we're doing a series on different things that have influenced rock and roll music and we're doing an hour show right now on progressive rock. first of all it might take an hour to try to define what progressive rock is, no one seems to have been able to/ do you have a definition for? z: well I would say that the general definition and it's not mine, but I would presume that people would accept this definition, progressive rock is anything that doesn't sound like regular rock, regular rock is everything that sounds like itself, all songs which sound the same, everything on MTv, everything on the radio, that's rock. progressive rock is stuff that doesn't sound like that. Q: some of the bands we're going to be highlighting Frank in this show are a Procol Harum and Traffic and Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull and Genesis and ELP and yes King Crimson, Devo, obviously and then talking about you, do you have any comments on any of these bands or you...? Z:is that progressive rock? Q: well, I wouldn't say so. Q: you'd consider none of these bands progressive rock? Z:name them again I'll go with. Q: Procol Harum: Z:no Q: Traffic. Z:no Q:Pink Floyd Z:sometimes Q:Jethro Tull Z:sometimes Q:Genesis Z:sometimes Q:Emerson Lake and Palmer Z:sometimes Q:yes Z:sometimes Q:King Crimson Z:sometimes Q:Devo Z:no Q:why? Z: I wouldn't describe Devos progressive rock. Q:you Z: I wouldn't describe myself as progressive rock either. Q: how would you describe? Z: it's not even rock and roll at all, it just happens to be consumed by a rock-and-roll audience. Q: do you think that you as a musician have had any influence on any of the bands that we just the list that we just went through? Z: it's always a possibility. Q: can you, if you if you had too far if I asked you to and if you chose to answer the question could you sum up Frank Zappa in a few sentences? Z:which one? Q:Frank Zappa the industrial-strength. Z: I'm a person who likes to do what he wants to do and has worked at it for 20 years and can generally do what he wants to do whether people like it or not and what I do is design for people who like it not for people who don't and I have no desire to inflict it on people who don't want to consume it and I'm committed to turning out as much of it as possible for the people who like it is there if you like it if you don't like it there's all those other names on the list. Q:what a great attitude that's neat. Z: it's called rational thinking. Q: so few people seem to be able to do it. Z: yeah I know, I was phased out with a Republican administration. q:right, do you require playing on a both any groups or artists that you've really admired or liked? Z:well, we have a quite a long list of opening acts but I don't want to be placed in the position of being a music critic I mean for example some of the people who have opened for us have included Fleetwood, Mac, Chicago, Alice Cooper, Three Dog Night, a lot of groups that went on to be mainstays of rock and roll but I'm not a rock and roll consumer I don't listen to the radio and the only time I see MTV is if my kids are watching it occasionally I have glanced at it and recoiled and hard some of the things that I've seen on there but that's just my own personal taste you know I'm not a rock-and-roll consumer. Q: what sort of musical consumer are you Frank? Z: I carry around tapes with me traveling on the road, I listen to bulgarian folk music, Chopin, Purcell, Webern, Stravinsky, Howlin wolf, you know, I like a lot of different kinds of stuff but basically it's not rock and roll music. q: can you describe how John Lennon came to perform with you at the Fillmore? Z: no problem, a journalist knocked on my door at a hotel called one Fifth Avenue about two o'clock in the afternoon on the day of that show and he was Stanton he was waiting there at the door this man writes for the Village Voice he was waiting there at the door with a tape recorder in his hand no I just crawled out of bed my hair sticking out all over the place and my eyes were twirling like that two o'clock in the afternoon it's very early to wake up if you played two shows in a night and he says hi Frank I'd like to introduce you to John Lennon he was you know sticking the mic at me like oh I'm gonna go eat, there's something like that, so I said okay come in, and the first thing he said to me is that you're not as ugly as I thought you'd be which leads me to wonder about the strength of his glasses because I'm as ugly as I ever was I'm just as ugly now as I was then and it's a great credit to mr.Lennon that he wasn't shocked by all of this so he came in and we talked for a few minutes and I asked him whether he wanted to play with us at the concert at the Fillmore East that night and he did, and we just happen to have a recording truck there because we were recording the shows for another purpose and the tapes were made, now here's the bad part during the performance when Lennon was on stage with Yoko, we played one of my songs called King Kong and the deal that was made according to the usage of the tapes was he got to use the tapes for his purpose I got to use the tapes for my purpose, he released part of that performance on an album called some time in New York and changed the name of the song King Kong to jam rag and gave himself and Yoko writing and publishing credit on the song, now obviously this song has a melody and chord changes somebody did write it and it was not them, so, whoops. q: Oh, do you ever do anything about it? z: um not yet. q: it's so hard not to laugh. z: go and laugh, what's the difference? see what mtv does to you? you can't laugh! you have to sit there and take this stuff seriously. give yourself and the audience a break, would you? I mean are we to assume that MTV really is an extension of the Warner Brothers mentality, it is, isn't it? come on, be honest. it's that corporate Warner Brothers, come on, we're about there in the valley kind of mentality. q: (laughing) yes, there's no doubt about it. z:I know it. q: they may call it rock and roll but it's corporate America. z: that's right. first it's about pull the chain, then comes the little brown choo choo train. q:(laughing) Frank, who are your guitar heroes? z: well today my favorite is Allan Holdsworth but when I first started playing I liked Johnny Guitar Watson, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown and Guitar Slim and a style that I play right now probably is more linearly derived from what guitar Slim has to do than anything else q: do you consider yourself a great guitarist? z: well I'm specialized. what I do on the guitar has very little to do with what other people do on the guitar. most of the other guitar solos that you hear performed onstage, have been practiced over and over and over again they go out there and they play the same one every night and it's really just spotless. my theory is this I have a basic mechanical knowledge of the operation of the instrument and I got an imagination and when the time comes up in the song to play a solo it's me against the laws of nature. I don't know what I'm gonna play, I don't know what I'm gonna do, I know roughly how long I have to do it, and it's a game where you have a piece of time and you get to decorate it and depending on how intuitive the rhythm section is it's backing you up you can do things that are literally impossible to imagine, sitting here, but you can see them performed before your very eyes in a live performance situation. I don't like any of the guitar solos that have ever been released on a record and I think that the real fun of playing the guitar is doing it live, not freezing it and saving on a piece of plastic someplace or putting it on a video. Q:so every night then is spontaneous for you, huh? Z:absolutely. Q:he keeps it fun? well think of it the other way, you know what if you had to play exactly the same notes every night and that like punching a clock. (mm-hmm) well who needs that crap. Q: again I mean you know I'll make a statement that I made to one of your earlier statements it's so refreshing to hear somebody talk like that. Z:well most people won't take that chance because I'll take the chance to go out there and make a mistake I will take that chance for the privilege of doing something unique one time only live in front of an audience because it's that's one of the reasons why the audience has come to see the concerts over and over again for the last 20 years because they know that the concert even though you may be playing songs off the record as a unique situation it's only going to happen at one time they're going to be jokes happening onstage that relate to that particular audience and they're going to be solos played during that show that will never happen again have never happened before will never happen again so it's something special just for the people who bought the tickets to that show and it's probably one of the reasons why the bootlegs of these concerts have done so well over the last couple of decades there's just there's hundreds of the things out and that's must be one of the reasons why people buy them although you shouldn't buy them. Q:do you think Frank that most artists are just afraid to stretch themselves musically afraid to take any sort of a chance at all? Z: well MTV is helping with that syndrome because all video outlets and that's basically the focus of the music today as whether or not what you do is video acceptable let's let's look at it realistically if a person likes music that is not enough in the 80s you can like music and you can play music you can sing you can dance you can have all these things going for you but you're not even going to get to first base unless you have science fiction hair and diagonal zippers on your clothes forget it you go to a record company to make a deal and the first thing they're going to do is look at your bubble isset a picture if they don't like that they won't even listen to the tape in fact they don't even care about the tape because they can always get Trevor Horn to fix it and so after Trevor is fixed it and they've approved your publicity photo then you get the video treatment and everything gets formulated according to the Warner Brothers aesthetic it goes onto MTV and it goes on to any other competitor that hasn't been bought by MTV yet and the group gets exactly one chance to do one thing and their musical lifespan is in direct proportion to the interest that the audience has in the way they look because the whole thing is based on a visual merchandising so what happened to music? Q:what do you what do you think it will take to to get us back to a point where music is music and experimental and people are willing to take chances? Z:well it's not going to happen. Q:really? Z:yeah Q:that's sad. Z:well. Q: a frightening thought. Z: tough tuckus, the damage has been done and unless somebody realizes and they and it has to be admitted and it has to be advertised and supported on this medium that what you are seeing on MTV is merely advertising for product which was designed as product not as music only as product the song is written so it's a visual song a guy sits down a figures it out how many midgets can we get in here how many girls how many lip close-ups when do you take the glasses off and the water comes out of your face you know you figure it all out and then that's your product and that is not writing a piece of music. Q: do you think do you think that people are who are entering the music business today are more concerned about being rock and roll stars than musicians? do you think that's part of the process? well that's not part of the problem, that's the way the world really is. there's very few people who ever went into pop music who did because they went into it as an art form, they did it because they wanted to be a star. there is a strong desire to be famous, to be rich, to have all the cocaine you want, to stick up your nose, have a chainsaw to chop up your hotel room and naked girls running around with, you know, leather things with points on the wrists and stuff, that's what everybody wants, you know, and they should have that. it's just get it out of my face but they should have as much of it as they want, that's got nothing to do with music.

۱۳۹۷ آذر ۱۹, دوشنبه

Does God exist? | J. Krishnamurti


Madras 1981-1982
Question #6 from Question & Answer Meeting #2
Krishnamurti: "Kindly give a straight reply. Does God exist, or not? Yes, or no? If yes, how best to realize him in this life?" a lovely question, isn't it? man throughout history, from the ancient Greeks, from the ancient Sumerians have this idea of God. right? I'm not at all sure whether in the Upanishads they mention god at all. or is it related invention, yes? so, what is god? we are investigating, I am not attacking god. I'm not denying god. but we are investigating whether there is such a thing as god. who invented god? did god invent us? did god create us? hmm, right? God who is omnipotent omniscient eternal merciful justice all goodness, right? that's your concept of God and if we say he has created us then we are part of his image. we are part of him. that is we are omniscient, generous, loving, right? and eternal, right? are we? or we THINK we are? if god created you he must be an extraordinary entity. because he wants you to live a terrible life. you understand my question? if god made you why are you like this? you must be extraordinary human beings. pleasant you, beautiful, full of joy, excitement, full of delight, but you are not. so either you have created god or god has created you. but if you examine very closely you have created god. well? in India there [are] about, I was told there [are] about three hundred thousand gods and more. you can see, huh? every local person has his own god. so sirs, we have created god. see they are any of it, thought has created god and then thought worshiped the image which thought has created, which is to worship oneself and call it god. you understand all this? the better part of you is god, right? I wonder if you understand this. first of all let's be clear. have you created god? the local god from the corner, or the local gods in Rome or in Tirupati or wherever, you have created them, haven't you? huh? (the audiences don't say a thing) you're so very uncertain aren't you? so frightened. if you have, if you say we have created then you are scared stiff. because you have created out of your fear, that, out of your fear, you want security, right? you want safety, you want feel there is somebody looking after you, because you are afraid. so you create that and then worship that. just see what you're doing. going to city Tirupati and putting all you money in the bag, do you think gods want your money? sir, look at it all. you have nothing to offer but money, garland, prostrations, rituals, right? you have nothing else to offer. have realize the tragedy of this, sirs? if you love, not god, that's very easy to love god because it's an abstraction, it has not much meaning. but if you love, that very love is god, it's that very lovely sacred. you won't go outside to look for god. you understand all this sirs? (brief silence) And the questioner wants to know if I believe in God, I don't. because god is not something created by man. there is such thing as eternity which is to be outside of time. for that you must have a mind, a heart that is completely free from all the burdens of life, right? from your vanity, your arrogance, your selfishness, you follow sir? and we say we are not capable of it, tell us what to do. we are back in the cycle, somebody to tell you what to do. so you are in a jungle you have to walk through it by yourself, right? and for that you need vitality and vigor and strength, not in belief in God and goodness. belief has no place where truth is concerned. (someone from the audiences asks about Ātman: Sanskrit word that means inner self or soul) who is that? (the audience replies: the conscience inside each of us) Krishnamurti asks again: who is that? (and the audience repeats: the conscience inside each of us) Krishnamurti: is Ātman conscience? (someone says soul) Krishnamurti: soul? which soul? the soul of actual or so, I don't know what you're talking about. (babel, people saying things all together) Krishnamurti: a class you're all getting excited (laughter) because your belief is being attacked. (laughter) you are not meeting the challenge but you're resisting it. you think there is something inside you which is permanent, which is the light of god, which is nameless, et cetera et cetera. call it ātman, soul, light, whatever you like to call it. that there is inside you, in your conscience, in your brain, in your mind. something which is not word. which is not a thought, right? you believe that, huh? yes sir? (someone from the audience says "no, I don't believe it.") Krishnamurti: why? (he says: because there is no such a thing) Krishnamurti: how do you know? (laughter) just belief belief belief. what kind of brains have you sirs? don't you want to find out? don't you want to investigate into the truth of this matter whether there is soul, atman, whatever you like to call it? don't you just believe... what if you believe, what value has it? see I suppose I believe I've got ātman or whatever it is, super ātman I call it! (laughter) I believe in that and what value has it? in my daily life what part does it play? I'm miserable, I'm confused, I'm lonely, anxious, in agony. what's the point of my having a belief in ātman? if I'm free from all that, completely, then I shall find out. but you suppose I am, before it becomes so childish for god's sake. we're all grown up people, [with] jobs, children, wives. (people talking at once/ someone stands up and asks a question, but his words are inaudible in the video) Krishnamurti: oh what what what? what's? I don't understand sir. (it seems the questioner is talking about Ramakrishna...) Krishnamurti: alright sir, what about them? (the questioner explains his question) sir, would you forget all these people? including Ramana Maharshi, what the other gentleman was, would you forget them? what value have their life to you? you have your life to live, not their life. and when the people say they have attained what they have attained, how do you know? (the questioner replies) Krishnamurti: I have said it sir, don't believe it. (laughter) (it's like the questioner says that's not fair) Krishnamurti (laughing): it's not fair, I know, it's not quite fair. but sir, just listen. the truth is that, that it's something it cannot be experienced. it cannot be told to you. word is not that, but if you live on words it's that. you understand? the word is not that. like the word tree is not the tree. I can describe eternity bla bla bla. but the word is not that, but we are satisfied with the word, right sir? you love with your heart, with your mind, with everything you have, when you love somebody and you tell me of that love, and I accept the words but have no... the flower isn't there, the perfume isn't there. you see sirs, you have leaders. religious leaders and political leaders. I don't know why, why you have leaders at all. Ramakrishna, whatever you call, gurus that you have had, one after the other. this country is full of. and why do you follow? you understand? if once you realize you are responsible entirely for yourself, that you are in a jungle, literally in a jungle where you have to make your own way out. there is nobody to lead you then you forget all this, the examples, the books, everything. because you got vitality, strength to go through. but the moment you depend on leaders you become weak. if once you realize it, in you heart, not just intellectually, then you are a man, human being, free to walk straight. but we don't want all that. so it's so simple when you think of it all._

۱۳۹۷ آبان ۱۶, چهارشنبه

ناگفته‌های همسر حبیب محبیان

حبیب محبیان سال ١٣٨٨ به ایران آمد. آن زمان حرف و حدیث‌ها درباره او بسیار زیاد بود. این‌که قرار است ارشاد به او مجوز دهد تا به صورت رسمی بخواند. حتی گفته شد قرار است در استادیوم آزادی با حضور او کنسرت برگزار کنند. با این حال تا زمانی که فوت کرد هیچ‌کدام از این موضوعات، اتفاق نیفتاد اما پس از مرگش ناگاه خبر آمد که قطعه‌ای از او مجوز دریافت کرده است. قطعه‌ای که البته پشتش حرف و حدیث زیادی بود. به گزارش شایان فیلم، «ناهید بسیم» همسر حبیب محبیان است که بیش از چهل‌سال با این خواننده محبوب، زندگی کرده و حالا با «شهروند» به گفت‌و‌گو نشسته است. او هنوز از رفتن حبیب داغ بر دل دارد. وقتی حرف می‌زد، هنوز صدایش می‌لرزید و چند جایی از صحبتش با «شهروند» به یاد حبیب محبیان اشک هم ریخت، اما حالا بیش از اندازه به یک موضوع اعتراض دارد آن هم مجوزی است که وزارت ارشاد برای یکی از خواننده‌ها به خاطر همراهی با صدای حبیب منتشر کرده است.
چرا "نیاسته" را برای زندگی انتخاب کردید؟دلیل شمال آمدن ما، به برخی از برنامه‌هایی برمی‌گردد که اتفاق افتاد. وقتی حبیب ‌سال ٨٨ به ایران آمد، کسی را در ایران به جز خواهر بزرگش نداشت که خیلی هم نمی‌شود درباره او حرف زد! بعد از آمدن به ایران اجازه خروج به او ندادند. در این مدت هم با آدم‌هایی آشنا شد که قول‌هایی به او دادند. حبیب عاشق ایران بود. زمانی که در آمریکا بودیم همیشه می‌گفت دوست دارد به ایران برگردد. همیشه می‌گفت ناهید من این‌جا نمی‌مانم، دوست ندارم این‌جا بمیرم. من هم می‌گفتم اگر اینطور است این‌جا نباید زندگی کنیم.

سخت نبود؟ منظورم وقتی به ایران آمدید؟
چرا بود. ما سی‌سال ایران نبودیم و در این سی سال، عملا جا پای محکمی نداشتیم. ما یک بار آن آغاز انقلاب همه چیز را فروختیم و به آمریکا رفتیم و عملا زندگی را از صفر آغاز کردیم و این بار هم برعکس از آمریکا به ایران آمدیم و باید همه چیز را از صفر آغاز می‌کردیم، به همین دلیل، عملا ادامه حضورمان در تهران امکان نداشت. به همین دلیل وقتی عده‌ای پیدا شدند و قول دادند که در ازای کار، هزینه‌های زندگی را پرداخت می‌کنند، پذیرفتیم و به چابک‌سر آمدیم. متاسفانه آن قول و قرار به سرانجام نرسید و به صورت مستقل خودمان ادامه دادیم.

به نظر می‌رسد فردی که شما تمایلی ندارید از او صحبت کنید، آقای رحیم مشایی باشد که آن زمان موقعیت ویژه‌ای دردولت داشت.
به روح حبیب در این موضوع کاملا آنچه هست را می‌گویم، این آدمی که به ما قول داد، آقای رحیم مشایی نبود.
پس آنچه در اخبار منتشر شده، شایعه بود؟نه شایعه هم نبود.

توضیح بیشتری می‌دهید؟آن آدمی که قول داده بود، مدعی ارتباطاتی بود و اتکا داشت بر حسب آشنایی و رابطه‌هایی که دارند، می‌توانند مجوزهای لازم را بگیرند. برخی موارد هست که من تازه می‌شنوم. در آن زمان خواسته شده بود به حبیب مجوز بدهند. برنامه‌ای به نام امضا از تلویزیون پخش می‌شد که من در آن برنامه این موضوع را شنیدم. آدم‌هایی بودند که نمی‌خواهم نام ببرم، اما می‌خواستند سرمایه‌گذاری کنند. آنها می‌گفتند اگر ١٠‌سال هم موضوع طول بکشد، ما تمام هزینه‌ها را می‌دهیم و پای کار می‌ایستیم تا به نتیجه برسد، اما متاسفانه حتی یک‌سال هم سر قول‌شان نماندند. خلاصه این‌که دولت به ما هیچ قولی نداد و حتی وقتی در آن برنامه از وزیر ارشاد آن زمان در برنامه تلویزیونی امضا پرسیدند که شما مشکلاتی با آقای احمدی‌نژد داشتید و او درباره این مشکلات توضیح می‌داد، گفت که آقایی از خوانندگان از لس‌آنجلس آمده بود و می‌خواستند ما برای برنامه او مجوز بدهیم که ما این کار را نکردیم. به همین دلیل تاکید می‌کنم دولت در این وسط نقشی نداشت، چند نفر اهل رامسر بودند که گمان می‌کردند با ارتباطاتی که دارند، می‌توانند مجوز بگیرند، بعد هم که تلاش کردند و دیدند کاری از دست‌شان برنمی‌آید.
پس دولت  وعده نداد؟اگر دولت وعده می‌داد که برخی محدودیت‌ها به وجود نمی‌آمد. لپ‌تاپ و تلفن و اینها را نمی‌گرفتند. آن زمان حبیب کمی هم سرخورده شده بود و می‌گفت می‌خواهم برگردم آمریکا، حتی می‌گفت می‌خواهم به صورت غیرقانونی بیایم و وقتی پشت تلفن این حرف‌ها را می‌زد به من می‌گفت ممکن است تلفنت شنود شود. آخر ما را ترسانده بودند و ما هم که از این کشور دور بودیم، باور می‌کردیم. بعد که می‌آیی به این کشور می‌فهمی آنطور هم که می‌گفتند؛ نیست و کسی وقت اضافه ندارد که بخواهد دنبال این و آن راه بیفتد.
 بعد از این موضوعات بود که به کتالم آمدید؟
بعد از آن اتفاقات و حدود یک‌سال‌ونیم (تقریبا) که آن آقایان سرمایه‌گذار فقط اجاره را پرداختند، ما خودمان دیدیم اینطوری امکان جلو رفتن نیست. من خودم کمی پس‌انداز داشتم و در تبریز هم چیزهایی داشتیم. تهران هم امکان هندل‌کردن را نداشتیم، به همین دلیل آمدیم به روستایی به نام نیاسته از توابع کتالم که الان معروف هم شده. شانسی هم آمدیم قبل از این یک دوره پنجاه روزه این‌جا اقامت داشتیم و چون مردم هم دیده بودند ما آدم‌های بی‌آزاری هستیم و چون دنبال جایی هم بودیم که از آن گروه جدا شویم، خودشان پیشنهاد دادند به این محل بیاییم و الان حدود شش‌سال است که در اینجا ساکنیم.
آن زمان یادم هست خبری منتشر شد که قرار است حبیب در استادیوم آزادی در کنسرتی صد‌هزار نفری، برنامه اجرا کند؛ ماجرا چه بود؟
این را شما از کجا شنیدید؟
موضوع خیلی معروف است، همین الان اگر در گوگل جست‌وجو کنید، کلی خبر درباره این موضوع بالا می‌آید.
می‌دانید چرا این را می‌پرسم، به این دلیل که حبیب همیشه این را در ذهن داشت. زمانی که در آمریکا بودیم همیشه می‌گفت: ناهید! آدم برود ایران و یک کنسرت در ورزشگاه آزادی بگذارد، چه می‌شود. این همیشه در ذهن این مرد بود و به کسی هم نگفته بود. این‌که چطور این موضوع مطرح شده، برایم جالب است. من هر وقت فکر می‌کنم می‌بینم با توجه به میزان علاقه‌ای که مردم به او داشتند، اگر چنین کنسرتی برگزار می‌شد، حتما کنسرتی به‌یادماندنی بود. حتی به نظرم ورزشگاه آزادی هم جا کم بود.
اینطور که می‌گویید برگزاری کنسرت در استادیوم آزادی به قول فرنگی‌ها «ویژن» حبیب بوده است؟
آفرین دقیقا این ویژن حبیب بود. برای همین از شما می‌پرسم که این را از کجا شنیده‌اید. حبیب آدم صاف، ساده و نازنینی بود. من چهل‌وچند‌سال با این آدم زندگی کردم خدای من شاهد است که آدم به این خوبی نه دیدم و نه شنیدیم.
در میان تمام این حرف و حدیث‌هایی که درباره حبیب به وجود آمد، خبر دیگری هم دهان‌به‌دهان در جامعه می‌گشت و آن این بود ‌که حبیب دق کرد...
حبیب این آخرها اصلا صحبت نمی‌کرد، به من هم چیزی نمی‌گفت. کاری بود که خودش کرده بود. وقتی گفت بیاییم ایران دیگر نمی‌توانست گله کند. من هم فکر می‌کنم واقعا حبیب دق کرد! او آدم سالمی بود. در عمرش یک نخ سیگار نکشیده بود. او حتی یک قطره الکل در عمرش نخورده بود. دایم ورزش می‌کرد. شب‌ها زود می‌خوابید. این آدم دق کرد. او شرمنده زن و بچه رفت. هر چند، ما هیچ‌وقت به او چیزی نمی‌گفتیم و فشاری از سمت ما بر او تحمیل نشد. او رفت، اما من نمی‌توانم باور کنم که او نیست. او نرفته من حتی نمی‌توانم برایش فاتحه بخوانم. من حتی نمی‌توانم از این‌جا بروم، فکر می‌کنم او را رها کردم و رفتم. هر روز هم باید به دیدنش بروم.
حبیب در مصاحبه‌ای که منتشر هم شده است، گفته که یک نفر قرار بود هزینه‌های یک کار مشترک را بپردازد. در همه جای دنیا اینطور است که وقتی یک خواننده قدیمی و جا افتاده، با یک خواننده جوان و گمنام برنامه اجرا می‌کند، حداقل یک‌میلیون دلار می‌گیرد، چون از اعتبار خودش استفاده می‌کند، ضمن این‌که شوهر من خواننده نبود. او موزیسین بود. آهنگساز بود. موزیک می‌دانست چیست، شعر می‌دانست و می‌گفت. این‌که می‌گویید مگر قرار و مدار نگذاشته‌اند، درست است حبیب با آنها قرا و مدار مالی هم گذاشتند و یک آهنگ خواندند. جالب است وقتی آن آهنگ را خواندند، دیگر غیبش زد و گمان کرد با یک آهنگ کارش گرفته و تمام شده است!

بنابراین حبیب بعد از این‌که ایران آمد، قطعاتی هم خواند و اجرا کرد...

بله، یکی آهنگ قدیمی‌اش بود که آن آقا می‌گفت ما این را تنظیم مجدد می‌کنیم و من هم در کنار شما چند بیت را بخوانم. قطعاتی هم خواند، اما ما از دنبال مجوز رفتن خسته شده بودیم. با خودمان گفتیم همین‌جا زندگی می‌کنیم و اگر حبیب خواست کارش را ادامه می‌دهد، آهنگ می‌خواند و آهنگ‌ها را هم در اینترنت منتشر می‌کنیم.

حبیب حاضر بود با یک سیب‌زمینی روزگار بگذراند، اما کسی از اوضاعش مطلع نباشد. او بسیار علو طبع داشت. طوری هم حرف می‌زد که من به‌عنوان همسرش گاهی فکر می‌کردم نکند گنجی چیزی دارد. کسانی که او را از نزدیک می‌شناختند، می‌دانستند و این علو طبع او را کاملا حس می‌کردند، به همین دلیل هم بود که خودش هیچ وقت به ارشاد نرفت، چون می‌ترسید کسی با او بلند حرف بزند.

حالا من نمی‌دانم ارشاد چطور این مجوز را صادر کرده است و مثالش خیلی واضح و شفاف است. فرض کنید کسی از دنیا می‌رود، او ١٠ تومان اگر داشته باشد، مگر نباید همه ورثه بروند و امضا بدهند برایش! من نمی‌دانم ارشاد با چه قانونی و با چه استدلالی این مجوز را صادر کرده است. شوهر من رفته ولی ما که هنوز هستیم. من همه زندگی‌ام، همه امیدم حبیب بوده که رفته است. من چشم طمع مالی به این قطعه‌ای که مجوز دادند، ندارم اما ارشاد نباید مجوز صادر می‌کرد.


الان این مجوزی که صادر شده است از شماها (شما و محمد) هیچ اجازه‌ای نگرفته‌اند؟

اصلا ما خبر نداشتیم.


البته طبیعی است که تمام حقوق قانونی، مادی و معنوی این اثر به ورثه می‌رسیده، درباره هیچ‌کدام از این موضوعات با شما صحبت نشده است؟

خیر، به هیچ‌عنوان. من نمی‌دانم با چه چیزی این مجوز صادر شده است، حتی به همان اثر هم پایبند نمانده و صدای حبیب را با آهنگی که خودش خوانده ترکیب کرده است. این اهانت است به حبیب. اگر قرار بود مجوز بدهند، باید تا زمانی که خودش بود می‌دادند، وقتی او رفته حتی به من هم نباید مجوز بدهند.


و تازه اگر هم مجوزی صادر می‌شود، باید تمام حقوق مادی و معنوی‌اش رعایت شود.

بله، دقیقا. تازه آن هم نه به فردی که گلوله آخر را به حبیب شلیک کرد. حبیب این اواخر مانند نخ ساییده‌شده بود. این اواخر مدتی تمام آنچه مربوط به ما بود، بر دوش محمد بود. خدا خیرش دهد، دعای خیر پدر و مادر همراهش بود.


ماجرای شلیک تیر آخر چیست؟

تقریبا یک‌ماه مانده به مرگ حبیب، محمد تماس گرفت و گفت نگذار پدر سراغ اینترنت برود، چون آن آقا نشسته و پشت‌سر پدر حرف‌هایی زده که اگر بشنود، به‌هم‌می‌ریزد، چون حبیب شکننده شده بود. من هم همین را به حبیب گفتم که مبادا نگاه کنی. متاسفانه یکی از آشنایان از تهران تماس گرفت و ماجرا را گفت. حبیب می‌گفت من نمی‌خواهم بشنوم و او باز داشت توضیح می‌داد. متاسفانه از این به بعد بود که دیگر او ساکت ساکت شده بود و ... حالا ارشاد به همین آدم مجوز کار با صدای حبیب را داده است.


حبیب آن‌طور که شنیدم قطعات مذهبی هم اجرا کرده است؟

بله، آن زمان که آمریکا بودیم، رفت لبنان و در شهر بیروت برای شهدا خواند. یک قطعه برای امام علی و یک قطعه هم برای امام حسین قبل از انقلاب خوانده است.


قطعه «نفسم گرفت از این شهر در این حصار بکشن/ در این حصار جادویی انتظار بشکن» هم ظاهرا برای امام زمان است؟

بله، همین‌طور است. حبیب آدم مذهبی‌ای بود. او یکی از افتخاراتش این بود که پسرش مُکبِر مسجد در لس‌آنجلس بود و اذان می‌گوید، اگر سراغ مسلم را بگیرد من می‌گویم او بود.

۱۳۹۶ آذر ۲۲, چهارشنبه

عکس


ایستاده: جهانگیر، احمد معینی، حسین پیکران، خسروی
نشسته: جمشید نجفی، جواد یساری